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I’m happy to announce some more great news to accompany the glorious summer we’ve been experiencing here in Boston.
Starting today, we’ll be gradually rolling out a new initiative that we call No Cost Gig Listings, which we bring to the community courtesy of our friends at Musician’s Friend. This is the biggest change we’ve introduced to the way that you experience Sonicbids since I founded the site almost 10 years ago.
So, what is this exactly? Well, over the next few weeks, you’ll be seeing more and more Gig Listings launched on the site that carry absolutely no cost to submit to them. That’s right. No submission fees. It will all be part of your Sonicbids membership.
On average, it takes about ten or so tries for a band to get their first gig on Sonicbids, and after that, we know that our members get the hang of how to interact with the promoter community and are able to multiply their success exponentially.
By gradually rolling out what we anticipate will be thousands of no cost Gig Listings (in addition to exclusive Premium Listings that carry fees like, say SXSW or CMJ), we believe that this will encourage more experimentation from our community, increase booking success, and, more importantly, offer even more value to our members.
We know that submission fees have been effective filters, so we’ll be taking the next several weeks to test out how our community interacts with these Gig Listings that have no fees before we roll out the whole lot of them in the fall/autumn.
Also, be on the lookout for ArtistData features being slowly incorporated into Sonicbids Artist Accounts in the next few weeks. More soon. You can read more in our FAQ section.
And, don’t forget to check out Musician’s Friend for all kinds of deals on instruments and goodies.
Panos
Hey Panos and new music team that’s fantastic news ! This
should keep the vibe for Sonicbids very positive for a
long time.
Kudos to you !
Great great initiative!! Thanks Panos!
Rudi
FORZA
This is incredible news! Love the new venture with Artist Data, and all these great ripples of change. Keep up the amazing work!
Thank you for adding the free opportunities. We music makers are broke! I have renewed my membership with SonicBids solely because of this.
This is great news, Panos! Thank you so much for doing this! I think it will be very helpful to everyone concerned. As an independent artist, I know that there are many ways that we constantly need to invest and re-invest in our careers but sometimes the budget just doesn’t allow. So I believe this will help many artists kick-start and increase their bookings and I, for one, really appreciate that!
Thanks again, Panos! You rock!
J.W.
Sonic bids fees are not a “filter”, they are nothing but a greedy ripoff. When my sonic bids ends I will not renew it and will post my EPK, with better files and larger size on my own website. I have paid numerous times to sonic bids to promoters that advertised they wanted blues, then been turned down because my music sounded like blues. To rub salt in the wound Sonic bids counts this as a “Gig. So thanks a lot for #^%^&*&*& nothing Panos
Hey Pete,
Thanks for the note. I am not sure what the point is here. Clearly we are launching this initiative to enable artists like you to connect with a lot more promoters for no added fees. Do submission fees act as a filter? Of course they do. We have a membership of over 250,000 but yet each gig listing gets on average 100 submissions. On a given day, many listings don’t even receive a single submission. So I would call fees a filter — maybe too good of a filter actually. I see no cost gig listings as a good thing for artists — that’s why we’re launching it. Would be happy to chat more and get your feedback if you are interested.
Panos-
Sounds like Pete is just using this as an opportunity to vent his frustrations. I must agree that fees are a filter. It filtered me away from Sonic Bids entirely. For the last 5 years a large percentage of my gigs have come from two very popular on-line referral sites. One charges 5% of all BOOKED gigs. The other charges artists and clients no fees at all. Since I average about 50 gigs per year form these services, I considered paying a fee just to BID on a gig totally out of the question. Don’t get me wrong, I understand that you are in business to make money, and you should be. And just between you, me and the lamp post, I hope you make buckets of it. But I’m in this to make money too, and for me, paying to bid just doesn’t make sense. I said all that to say this: I’m really glad you’ve taken this step, and I hope to have a long, happy and profitable relationship with Sonic Bids.
Greg
Great– as veteran musician I worked for years with a booking agent– but now she is retired and I am semi-retired but still playing regionally– I am new to Sonicbids and the hairy world of trying to convince people that I really have played at Lincoln Center in order to get a job that doesn’t even pay the travel and my band costs!! Any port in a storm is welcome!!
More SOUTHeastlistings please!!
Sounds great Panos! Just had a thought though… We submitting artist really need to treat this with respect.. Let’s only submit to appropriate promoters.. for example, we don’t want to bombard the Punk market with Country music and such… that sort of thing will only end up turning these FREE submissions back to cost. Rock on!
Greetings and blessins to you and the staff, I appreciate the invitation and am looking forward to work with you you just call back my attention ,Life is funny sometimes we have to be lure the right way down the highway with out striking the wrong strings I will give it a try. One Love
Panos
THis sounds like great news! However, I’m not sure a lot of artists realise is that with no submission fees the gigs are likely to be very specific, which will count out many artists anyway, or inundated with so many submissions that their chances of even being seen are greatly reduced. As an artist I’ve gotten a few gigs on sonicbids and am at the stage of realising that I need to beef up my EPK in order to increase my chances when submitting. Although I don’t love paying money just to submit I know that those fees keep the number of submitting artists to a minimum so that my material has a better chance of being considered.
I will say that I have found sonicbids to offer the best array of quality gigs on the internet. Several organisation book exclusively through sonicbids so if you don’t have an account you lose out.
My only gripe with sonicbids is that I have found the Reverbnation EPK a lot easier to manipulate and am more confident sending it than I am sending a sonicbids one. The EPKs on sonicbids are a little limited with a basic account and I’m not aware of any means to e-mail or embed my soncibids EPK into other sites.
my two cents
Tim
Hey Tim,
Thanks for the note, really appreciate it. With Sonicbids, we take the approach that the EPKs are all about the recipient getting the right info in an effective way rather than about super-customization. The feedback from our promoters is that they like the standardization because it enables them to compare everyone on equal footing. That said, we are planning on making upgrades to the EPK so be on the lookout. And indeed, you can email your EPK out to anyone you’d like from the “email my EPK” function.
We are undergoing the most exciting evolution of Sonicbids since I launched the site back in (wow, it’s been that long) 2001. Expect a LOT more additions soon.
Haaaaallllelujah!!!!!!!!
Make the submission process a thoughtful one forcing the artists submitting to vet their own submission for relevance to the listing. Most artists don’t have money, but we do often have time. Filters are definitely a good thing, but don’t hit us where it already hurts.
fyi, Panos …… I dropped Sonic Bids a while ago in near-disgust because it was just all pay to play. And I never had the tangible feedback that any of my submissions were even looked at, much less actually considered. It was all a big turn off.
I hope you guys get it right this time. Bottom line, THE SOLUTION SHOULD SERVE AND EMPOWER EVERYONE INVOLVED … if it doesn’t, then you’re just missing the point of life on this planet. lol : )
Sounds good! I hope it is successful for all concerned.
Panos-
I forgot to add in my remarks (Greg Jaqua wrote on July 7th, 2010 at 9:48 am) that the services I use have an annual fee. So my statement that one of the services doesn’t charge anything at all to BID on a gig may have been misleading. Just wanted to set the record straight.
Greg
wow now thats what im talking bout good deal.im in
It’s about time! I’ve wasted so much money on this site over the last 5 years to get nothing but generic “Not Selected” responses time and time again. Seems to average out that for every $500 you spent you get 3 gigs. hahaha. I’ve found it easier to just contact people at festivals you want to be in, Bar Owners, Promoters, etc. and get them to put you on a showcase! I don’t know why I keep applying to things, I guess it’s the dream that drives us right? It’s been a good cash grab for a lot of shit companies though. I should just make a CD compilation application so I can make all that money I lost back!
On a more positive note, I love Artist Data and am glad you have joined forces! I think they will help Sonic Bids become a stronger company.
This is great! I was just going to cancel my membership. This is worth keeping.
It remains to be seen what the quality of the free submission venues are like.
I surveyed the free submission listings and found them to be non-paying or extremely low paying gigs. Based on this I would ask how likely is it that actual paying gigs for professional musicians will be free to submit to, such as festivals and real concert venues.
I would also like to point out that the idea the idea of fees as filters is true when the fee is very small, say, $2-$4 or so, but when the fee is $10 to $40 saying that the fee is a filter is simply disingenuous.
SoWa Sundays Music Series (Summer 2010)
2010 Kauai Music Festival (KMF) Songwriter Conference and Contest
Liberate Music and Yoga Festival 2010
Club Martini at The Palms: Booking (June 2010) (5 way split of door after 15 covers)
Six Flags Great Adventure – Live & Local 2010
Steve,
Thanks for the comment. As I mentioned, we are still in the very early, trial days. Right now there are about 50 or so no cost listings and there will be about 150 within the next few weeks as part of our trial run. However, full release of no cost listings (which will amount to thousands) will be in early Fall. Note that right now promoters set the fees, not Sonicbids but the average submission on Sonicbids is currently at $11.
Sonicbids has ALWAYS had “no submission fee” gigs. All the best ones still cost $20 bucks or more. By your own admission it takes 10 tries to get a gig through sonicbids. That’s $200 thrown to the WIND for NO GIGS!!!
You charge for a membership, you charge for the right to apply… you can’t just pick ONE? You have to charge for BOTH? You say that the event promoters set the fee…why not control it somewhat? Aren’t you making ENOUGH money?
The music industry is injured, our economy is injured. Who do you think is affected most by that? Those who make very little money!!! MUSICIANS!!!
Some of us can’t afford to THROW AWAY $200 to score one gig!!! So far I’m convinced $200 worth of posters and t-shirts is worth more. $200 to CD Baby can get 100 CDs pressed!!! Do you see the incongruities here? The amount you’re charging per gig is RIDICULOUS (whether it be $5 or $35 the price is NEVER worth it when you consider how many other people use this site.)
In closing, I have gotten us two years worth of great gigs, at popular spots, that we’ve been paid between $50-$500 for without spending a cent. I’ve applied for 5-10 gigs through Sonicbids…been accepted once (and then ignored by the venue, with no gig or pay or even an email about it.) and this site hasn’t gotten me ANYTHING to speak of.
I would have canceled my account long ago if I wasn’t getting my free year from Jango.com (a service WORTH paying for).
Thanks for the comments, Adam. I agree that Jango is worth paying for which is why you are able to get it at a discount from Sonicbids. Here’s my two cents:
– I’d love for you to wait and judge us when we launch no-cost listings. I am confident that the gigs you’ll be able to apply to at no cost will make it well worth it. As a reminder, this is something that we are testing but we haven’t launched;
– You say that the best gigs on Sonicbids today cost money. Just this past month we’ve had sponsorship deals with Universal Pictures, Midas Brakes, Taylor Guitars, Jansport, even opening slots for Bon Jovi and soon sponsorship opportunities with Diesel jeans and Virgin Mobile that cost $0.
– You mention that CDBaby is worth paying for. I agree. But what do you get with 100 CDs? You use them to get an audience, right? Most of them, let’s face it, you end up giving away for promotional use for free — to again, get an audience that is then willing to pay for your art. A gig does pretty much the same thing;
– What’s a gig at SXSW worth? Or having your song played for 5 million folks traveling on Delta airlines? Or playing at Bumbershoot festival for several thousand people? Or touring China all expenses paid? Or opening for Ben Folds at Symphony Hall in Boston? Or opening for Bon Jovi at the O2 arena in London? How about a tour of UK high schools. Or a showcase at an NACA conference for over 1,000 colleges who spend $300 million a year booking music. My feeling is, they’re priceless — or at least way more than $100.
– I did not say that it takes 10 submissions to get a gig. I said it takes on AVERAGE 10 tries to get your FIRST gig on Sonicbids. With an average price of $11 or so, that’s about $100. After that, you figure out the best way to use Sonicbids. I’d been an agent for years before I started Sonicbids. And I tell you what. To book any gig, once I factored in all my time plus research, calls, promotional materials, etc. it would cost me way more than $100 — and I am talking about artists that were on major labels back in the day that had tons of promotion behind them. ATT charges you $100 a month to just have access to their bandwidth without even making a single call. Conferences charge you $500 for a badge, for the likelihood that you may connect with someone worth while. It’s all a matter of return — and not always immediate but cumulative, over the course of not a month or two but a year or two.
– Lastly, unless you have a plan of attack I would not bother submitting to anything, free or paid. It would be a waste of time and money.
Damn right Adam…you are spot on.
I’ve already applied to 4 gigs of varying degree of difficulty and given that I have paid for membership and bid for each gig..it has been a complete and utter waste of my time and money.
I can’t help thinking how easy it is for promoters to make money off small, unsigned bands. With absoutely ZERO feedback on why they didn’t choose you.
How can you *ever* call this a win/win situation?
Rant over.
Sounds wonderful. I was beginning to feel leary about this.
Hope this change helps.
Madam Coco
Wow, between this news and the customer service I received today from SonicBids…you are the BEST!
ADAM- You ARE TOTALLY RIGHT. I can’t WAIT for some good solid investigative journalism into this piece of S**T Sonicbids scam- and I can think of a few bloggers and friends at the New York Times to get in touch with because I actually care about seeing my fellow musicians getting screwed more than we already do by nightclubs.
I have booked 30 gigs for myself in the past 3 months- not ONE through Sonicbids. not One. and all of my own booking has been free– unlike the 200 dollars I spent on this lame website. I recommend using the PHONE and sending emails DIRECT to bookers.
Hey Rachel, Panos is out of the country traveling on business right now, so I wanted to reach out. I just sent you an email to you with a few questions. Would love to get your feedback on what could improve your Sonicbids experience. Hope to get an email back soon!
haha …yea we like this new option. It’s a good balance you know. Promotes other opportunities other then just physical performances per say i.e. recording, college cd offers, radio spots etc. Gets your feet wet.
-Big D
very nice…it does help to give some opps away….much appreciated….Gary/The Fletchers
Great initiative. Thanks for your support. I find your system easy to access to the best gigs of the world. One of my songs was recognized as one of the best songs of the world on Billboard.
thanks!
Pan your dreams help make those dreams come to life.
Great news for all who career hinge on those dreams of others. Were dreams are made.
Thanks CFP
Great news, Just joined up with Sonicbids. I have a ton of songs and need places for them to roam. SG
Panos, I have a song that is at the Whitehouse which was submitted to them via our congressman as he loved it so much and thought it should be out there. He asked me the other day, how is it a song like this is just sitting there? Well, I told him, I am not finished yet and it takes an army to get that accomplished. Well maybe not an army but close. LOL Thanks Panos for helping to get the music out there. SG
hey when can i send my music and can u give me a adress
can u give me a adress when i can send u my lyrics and when i can mail it
Panos, I appreciate the idea of offering a sizable number of no submission fee opportunities, but I understand the concept of the “filter” as well. Why does it have to be all or nothing, though?
I seriously believe that even a $2 fee will be enough to deter the kinds of people who submit to anything and everything regardless of how appropriate it is for them. No one will just throw $2 away every time a listing comes up unless they really think they can be accepted, so the filtration process would still mostly work in that case.
If you still want to recoup lost revenue through advertising (as in the case of Musician’s Friend sponsoring no-fee opportunities), you could simply list the opportunity under “reduced fee brought to you by…” and still make the ad deal with a sponsor for that listing.
Hi Panos,
I have never minded paying a small fee for some of these bids. As a one time reviewer judging a songwriting contest I can tell you that without some fee, people would send in a gazillion entries per month, hoping something will stick. Having some fee requires more thought and being choosy about what you want to send out.
In reality we mostly use our EPK to send to promoters and bookers on our own. We direct people to our EPK for photos and facts and to hear our music. It gets us plenty of gigs, some paying and some charity fundraisers. We bring attention to the domestic shelters and raise funds for women’s shelters.
People love our EPK and the fact that they can find what they need. I love sending the link to everyone so they can download photos, hear music, etc. I’ve been connected to sonicbids on my own http://www.sonicbids.com/joanenguita for years and have always loved it. It’s clear it’s not for everyone, but I like being able to update anything I want myself and not having to pay some other fee for a webmaster to update anything.
Thanks for the new changes, and we’ll just have to see how the recipients of those thousands of submissions hold up. Artists—be discriminating about what you submit. Please don’t send them your favorite five songs. You’ll simply wear them out. If they like the one song you send, they’ll go to your EPK and listen to more. Good luck everybody.
Best always, Panos, amigo,
Joan
Hi there, just stopped by doing some research for my Taylor Guitars site. Truly more information than you can imagine on the web. Wasn’t what I was looking for, but great site. Take care.
Hi there Panos, I do not have a pay pal account set up nor do I have a charge card. Can I mail a money order to your company so that money can be put onto my account? I am new here and have someone helping me to find gigs for exposure. Do These gigs pay?
Thanx
Thunda2
Hi Thunda, Tess from Sonicbids here. We do indeed accept money orders. I just sent you an email with the details. Take a look!
Well I finally decided to let go of Sonicbids; I’ve had only one “booked” gig – signed a contract for a licensing, nothing came of it. Most of my friends are using another site (which I also belong to) that does not charge a monthly fee, only a fee when you submit.
Nice try on rolling out the “free” bids, but I can see it’s been a few months since anyone commented and apparently it’s not up and running yet?
I may be back in the future, because it’s a good idea, but for now I just can’t afford to keep paying for nothing. I live in northwest Louisiana, and there’s just nothing even close to here that has come up.
Ok ok, no listing fees. Wooooooww.
It’s about the quality of the listings. And at the moment, most listings are second rate and just masked advertising campaigns.
I’m not convinced. I’m still leaving.
Have to tell you that wow thats great about the free listings, but this whole thing is a f-ing scam where the promoters are in bed with sonic bids…total waste of money in my opinion…Think of the money being made when promising 2-3 slots for a sonic bids member vs. the thousands that submit and pay $10-20$…We’ve submited far over 10 times and never selected…no reason, just not selected. Total disconnect…sonic bids is under investigation by the Federal Trade Commision from what I understand.
Sorry man, but that last comment about the FTC is, ugh, false.